Raiding Tips/Tricks - How do You Play?

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Bluepea
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Raiding Tips/Tricks - How do You Play?

So I thought I’d share, in explicit (probably even pedantic) detail, how it is I play the game, just in case some morsel can be of use to anyone of any class or role. None of it is new information that can’t be found in various guides on the net. This is just what works for me. Most of it is basic, obvious raiding 101 stuff, but often dismissed as subjective or peripheral.

In Risen, we were also a family-oriented guild that raided 2 nights a week. Usually when a new tier of content arrived, the first couple weeks would be spent demolishing normal mode to get to the real content – heroic. DPS was highly competitive, especially our brutally honest and critical Death Knight, Kailee, a notorious theorycrafter bent on pumping out consistently world class top 10 WoL parses. I also had the company of a couple other warlocks capable of the same feats. This crucible kept me sharp and always looking for the edge. Now I prefer to spend a bit less free time scouring for ways to squeeze 10 more DPS out of a fight, but much of what I’ve learned has become second nature.

I get this a lot in LFR and PUGs for world bosses. They always ask about my rotation or stat priority, then claim they’re doing the same thing and are perplexed at where the discrepancy must lie.

It’s easy to find strategy guides about the best single target or AoE rotation, best-in-slot gear, highest-simming specs and stat priorities, but when I’m asked by other warlocks in LFR to make appraisals, armory profiles and combat logs won’t tell the whole story. It’s sometimes taboo to criticize, but how you actually play the game, that is, physically interact with your computer is probably going to be as large, if not the largest, single factor affecting your performance. There’s no such thing as a wrong way to play WoW if you’re just here to have fun, but there are plenty of wrong ways if you care about maximizing your potential, which is what’s most fun for me. I’m often shocked to hear from people who have been playing their main since vanilla and don’t use or are even aware of nameplates or DoT Timers or hotkeys, shrugging them off as irrelevant factors.

I believe success in raiding all comes down to playing the game in a way that maximizes your attention on things that matter while minimizing or removing things that don’t. You have a limited attention budget that each encounter is designed to tax. Every decision you make may be deeply informed by research, class guides and theorycrafting, but if your attention budget is strained by too many stimuli that aren’t crucial to the encounter at hand, your risk of mistakes increases.

The purpose behind each of these suggestions is allocating that attention budget in a way that increases awareness of key events, thus increasing efficiency, while eliminating distractions, thus reducing mistakes.

Hotkey or Die

First, ABSOLUTELY NO CLICKING. I’m sure this is already fundamental for everyone here, but I’ve found that even some great players aren’t always thorough about hotkeying or making the necessary macros for all of their combat abilities. If this doesn’t apply to you, skip the following arguments for why clicking is terrible.

Any ability you might ever have to use in any raid situation, no matter how rarely, must be hot-keyed. If it’s not, you’re losing time, getting distracted and endangering the raid. This goes for special action buttons, too. Just make the macro “/click ExtraActionButton1” and assign it to “that hotkey I use for fight-specific mechanics.”

“But I do fantastic DPS and I’m a clicker. To each his own.”

I don’t believe you, and you’re wrong. No matter how awesome your dps may be, it would be even better if you used hotkeys and the appropriate macros.

“I’ve been playing this way for too long. I’m comfortable with it and trying to learn hotkeys would do more harm than good.”

Lazy, and I guess you don’t really care about min/maxing your output, nor do you respect the time and effort of those who are probably carrying you. In the long run, if you took a weekend to practice with hotkeys, you would look back at your clicking self and wonder what the hell you were thinking.

“I’m an excellent multitasker. I can handle clicking without standing in fire.”

Delusional. Science has shown that multi-tasking is practically impossible in the literal sense, i.e. doing multiple things simultaneously and without error. When we think of ourselves as multitasking, what we’re really doing is quickly shifting our focus between several tasks, but while that focus is briefly on whatever task, the others inevitably suffer in the periphery. It’s a matter of switching back to each channel before something bad happens. You can simply remove a host of distractions from your already taxed attention budget by relegating your interface to the keyboard.

Of course, this doesn’t mean you should never use your mouse. By all means, if you have one of those mega mice with 18 buttons, feel free to use them as hotkeys. The problem is when you find yourself having to move the cursor to an icon on your screen to click it. There’s a reason everyone types using a keyboard instead of clicking an on-screen keyboard. It’s drastically more efficient and frees up attention to be spent on other visual tasks.

Most world class raiders and PvPers tend to use their mouse for moving, camera adjustment and (with fancy mice) extra hotkeys, while using the keyboard for the rest of their hotkeys. Movement using the arrow keys or WASD is discouraged as it requires you to turn in order to run in a direction different from the one you’re facing which wastes precious time. For example, if the boss is about to cast a large, deadly AoE spell and you need to clear its radius, turning around then running or turning a quarter-way then strafing will never be as fast as pointing the camera behind you and clicking both mouse buttons.

As a left-hander I find this control scheme a bit challenging and awkward but I still recommend it. I keep my (normal 2-button) mouse on the left side and use hotkeys with my right hand. However, I have enough macros and hotkeys assigned to fill the entire keyboard, so many end up out of reach. I order to reach them all quickly, I find it easier to ditch the mouse entirely, use my right hand to move with arrow keys as well as hitting longer cooldowns and targeting macros assigned to the NumPad and Delete, End, Page Down, etc., while performing my DPS rotation with my left hand on keys 1-6 and QWERTY.

Keyboard-turning is a bit more forgiving to casters as they’re often spread out where strafing will suffice, and they don’t have to worry about chasing mobs to stay in melee range. Any time a fight requires sharp changes in direction of movement, though, I will revert to using the mouse. I also must use the mouse as Destruction to place Rain of Fire. If you’re comfortable using the mouse in one hand and reaching all your hotkeys with the other, that’s probably the best setup.

Efficient and Clear UI

Blizzard has made good strides in folding features from some of the most useful addons into the core experience. Some people go nuts with customization, but I’m a stickler for preserving the game’s aesthetic. The interface is the wrapper of the whole package and where the rubber meets the road in terms of how players receive feedback for actions they take in game. If my interface strays too far from the aesthetic Blizzard created, I feel like I’m playing a different game – one that’s uglier and less fun. If this doesn’t matter to you, don’t worry. What matters most is having the most important information where it can be easily seen and read clearly. For me, this means minimalism. If it’s not absolutely imperative, you don’t want it cluttering your screen and squandering your attention budget.

Information I find to be imperative:

Your Resource

I find it adequate to simply unlock my character frame and move it to the lower center of my screen, where I can see my health, mana, ember/shards/fury. However you get your resource front and center is up to you, but it should be there so you don’t have to glance away from the action before deciding whether to Life Tap or Haunt.

Temporary Buffs – Pots, Procs and Trinkets

I’m using an addon called Weak Auras to track any temporary buffs that increase my DPS. This includes trinkets, Lightweave and weapon enchants, potions, cooldowns like Dark Soul or Berserking, legendary meta gems, and buffs provided by others as well, such as Skull Banner.

I like to use bars and color code them so their effect is obvious even in the periphery. I usually associate yellows with haste, blues with spell power and so forth. Any visual clues you can build in can help save on mental processing time. I try to line them all up and give them a length relative to their up-time so I can clearly see what kind of windows of opportunity I’ll have to capitalize on multiple buffs running in concert. I also give more important/powerful buffs wider bars so I know they take priority.

Here you can see my meta gem and Jade Spirit are about to run out but there are several other buffs rolling as well. This is a prime opportunity to spend a shard refreshing all my DoTs at +80% Haste and lots of spell power, assuming Haunt is already up and the speed at which Corruption and Malefic Grasp are ticking will likely produce more shards. I would probably use my Soulburn/Soul Swap macro again as Wushoolay’s Lightning reaches 10 stacks and Dark Soul is almost gone in order to lengthen my DoTs (via Pandemic) again at massive spell power and haste.

At level 90, the exponential way in which stats on gear are increasing results in enormous variance from one moment to the next as buffs trigger and expire. We’re talking fluctuations in the 10’s of thousands of DPS. It’s more critical than ever to know how to harness them. Setting up a clear presentation of these fluctuations and their timings will allow you to easily react and make the most of them at a glance.

DoT and Cooldown Timers

While DoTs are definitely crucial for warlocks, most classes and specs have some kind of damage or heal over time component at level 90 that is worth tracking, as well as cooldowns that need to be hit as soon as they’re available. There are many decent addons available, but look for one that is capable of displaying the individual ticks. Since it’s best to refresh DoT’s just before the last tick occurs, you need to be able to see what this window looks like so you’re not wasting time or ticks refreshing early. Pandemic makes this less punishing, but it’s still wasted time. I’m using ForteXorcist to track DoT’s and cooldowns.

From this I can see it’s time to cast Unstable Affliction on my current target (which will complete its cast time just before the last tick, adding it to the new one), then switch to the other target to cast another Unstable Affliction (which will be down to its last tick by the time I get there) followed by Haunt (which should refresh just in time considering its cast and travel time).

If my timers weren’t aligned correctly or lacked tick indicators, my attempts to maintain the maximum uptime would be less precise and efficient.

Event Timers

Have a boss mod like Deadly Boss Mods or BigWigs that display timers for important events. Knowing something that requires movement, gives buffs or debuffs, a graphic to watch for, etc. is imminent can allow you to plan accordingly.

The Environment

Everything that’s behind your UI is the environment. You want to see as much of it as possible at all times. Use “/console cameradistancemaxfactor 4” to double the distance you can zoom out your camera. Keep it zoomed out as far as possible and tilted at an angle that gives the best view of the area. I prefer about 45°. Don’t play with it up your character’s ass or on the floor.

Nameplates

Go ahead and press V, then never press it again. Nameplates are nice for many reasons. They generally cluster in the middle of the screen where they’re easily seen. They tend to appear right at the range your spells can reach them. If you don’t see a nameplate, it’s out of range. If you do, it’s a valid target. They make managing multi-target rotations a cinch. Having visual indicators of how fast all the mobs are dying allows you to re-prioritize your abilities on the fly.

If I see a target dying extremely fast, I know it would be a waste to throw DoT’s at it and might just switch over to tag it with a Drain Soul refreshing my shards to full. Many classes have Execute-style abilities that are only available below certain thresholds like 35% or 20% health. It’s important to have your target’s health displayed as a percentage for this reason. You will come to instinctively know what a health bar at 20% looks like so you can switch to it and abuse your highest DPS abilities.

Here is an example of nameplates visible in an AoE situation. As Destruction I’m burning them down with Rain of Fire and Fire and Brimstone empowered Immolates, Conflagrates and Incinerates, but Shadowburn is my highest DPS spell, so I want to look for opportunities to use it as often as possible.

With a macro that allows me to Shadowburn simply by mousing over targets, I can start spamming it at this point. Thanks to nameplates I can see all the other targets have entered Shadowburn range. I can mouse over anywhere in that cluster of nameplates and be sure to hit them. I can even toss Havoc on my main target so it also gets hit with 3 extra Shadowburns. If others were AoEing, they would be dying very quickly, so the opportunity to Shadowburn will be small. Tabbing through them to Shadowburn would be far too awkward and slow, losing time on targets that either die right when you get to them or haven’t reached execute range yet.

Understand Your DPCT Priority

You only get to make use of your standard rotation for short periods during most fights. Your spell priority should constantly be changing as procs occur, cooldowns complete, new targets and fight mechanics enter/leave the picture. More important than memorizing a rotation is understand how your spells behave under different conditions.

Your DPCT (Damage per Cast Time) or sometimes DPET (Execute Time) is the most important metric you need to learn. It’s a measurement of how much damage an ability is worth given an equal length of time, i.e. one global cooldown.

Here’s a DPET chart for Destruction Warlocks at heroic tier 15 item level. What do these numbers mean? Doesn’t Chaos Bolt hit harder than Shadowburn? Yes, but it has a ~2½ second cast time and Shadowburn is instant cast. If you cut a GCD-size chunk out of a properly Dark Soul’ed Chaos Bolt, it would probably equal the amount of damage you see on this chart.

I like to visualize my complete damage performance on an encounter as if it were a song, with every GCD a beat in that song. Every beat that goes by I want to fill with whatever note will account for the most damage.

This is why DoT’s like Immolate and Agony have such high priority. In the space of a second, you’re locking in what will eventually amount to lots of damage. It’s as if Immolate were an instant cast spell that hit for ~328k but had no DoT component. Grimoire of Service has such a high DPET because it’s a 2 minute cooldown. The time spent to add it to your song is one beat, but it lives to rack up a large amount of damage. Again, just imagine it as an instant cast spell that hits for 588k as long as it will last its full duration.

Given this chart, if I were in a room of infinite training dummies that were spread out and could never drop below 99% health what would be my optimum dps rotation? Well, it would be to use Service on cooldown and do nothing else but Tab through targets casting Immolate. That sounds like it would be terrible, but if you understand your DPET priority in that scenario, it will result in the most DPS.

Always be on the lookout for opportunities to cast your highest DPET spells and tailor your UI and macros to make capitalizing on them as convenient as possible (i.e. the mouseover Shadowburn macro I mentioned earlier). As Destruction I want to cast Shadowburn as much as possible. Havoc allows me to duplicate it 3 times to another target, doubling its already obscene DPET. That’s 6 Shadowburns in the space of 3 beats. That’s such an enormous DPET, it even becomes worth it to delay important cooldowns like Dark Soul and trinkets to use in concert with Havoc and Shadowburn, or splitting DPS between targets that might only survive 1 SB, so you can have multiple viable targets ready for cleaving.

Of course, this kind of abuse should never encroach on the needs of the raid. Cleaving Chaos Bolts to a secondary head on Megaera may be monster DPS, but it’s a waste of precious embers that should be saved for the target that matters.

Never Stop Casting

Now that Blizzard has implemented spell queueing, there is no possibility of lost time between beats. Every cast snaps end to end like Legos. You should be doing something to fill every single beat seamlessly from Entering Combat to Leaving Combat. Every second of down time is essentially averaging zeros into your sustained DPS which KILLS it hard.

If you expect movement, plan accordingly and save instant cast spells for that period, while saving large cooldowns for periods without movement. Be already positioned and facing the direction you want to move. Most spells that require you to face the target will still work up to a perpendicular 90° angle. If you expect to have to run away, you can turn to the side ahead of time and continue casting. When it’s time to flee, just strafe and continue casting.

Kiljaeden’s Cunning has finally trivialized movement for warlocks, but the snare does come into play and some fights call for other level 90 talents, so it’s not always available. Life Tapping proactively or refreshing DoTs is a great example of maximizing beats on the move.

Also, switching targets never needs to result in lost time. A cast on one target followed by a cast on the next should be as seamless as if you were unloading on a single target. Using /targetlasttarget and focus macros mid-cast should get you where you want to be instantly. With 3 or 4 targets, position yourself so they fall into your Tabbing cone. Tab seems to have the following priority when cycling through targets - Near Front -> Far Front -> Near Side/Behind. By now everyone should have an instinct for what Tab will choose next and be able to move in ways that facilitate it always picking the one you want.

As you become familiar with the pacing of an encounter you will find more and more opportunities to tighten up your rotation and minimize movement or downtime by being in the right place at the right time. Which brings me to…

Know the Fight

It takes all of 10 minutes to watch a video guide and hit Shift+J to peruse boss abilities. This will give you a leg up in knowing what to expect and which mechanics your role is most concerned with. It’s easily equivalent to a couple practice pulls of experience. Showing up to a fight with no knowledge is disrespectful to the time and effort of the 9-24 other folks in the raid. LFR is a fantastic practice tool. You get familiar with the pacing, orientation and visual signals of the mechanics without worrying about dangerously tuned math.

As mentioned before, have a boss mod with timers for key events that will affect your rotation, but be sure to go through the list of alerts and remove any that aren’t important to your role so they don’t distract you or clutter the environment. I personally don’t care about the boss’s next application of a tank debuff, but his healer probably should. I do care, however, when he will enter an immune phase so I don’t blow a big DPS cooldown 3 seconds beforehand.

Know your Class

This is so obvious it should go without saying, but you can tell the difference between someone who has been playing a class since vanilla and someone with “alt-itis” who switches mains every couple of tiers. By now, each class has so many layers of complexity folded in from old talents, glyphs, or buffs made into passives or tacked onto other abilities. The application of many of these idiosyncratic inheritances can be lost on novice or intermediate initiates to a class. It takes time and practice to get to the point where you can instinctively feel all of these moving parts working under the hood and how they influence your performance.

Look through World of Logs parses to see how others of your class are handling things. There are probably ways to abuse some feature of your class on each encounter. Learn what those are. For instance, Demonology warlocks with the Unerring Vision of Lei-Shen trinket will abuse the proc to apply Doom to all 4 Council of the Elders targets at 100% crit. With all these Dooms guaranteed to crit, you generate insane numbers of Wild Imps. Opportunities to abuse synergies like this will always trump what any sim results or optimization app tells you to do with your character, because…

Sims are Not Real Scenarios

Most simulations are based on a “Patchwerk” model. There is only one Patchwerk in the game, and unless you plan on raiding him only, don’t take these sims as gospel or even relevant when applied to most fights in the game. Blizzard has even announced that the community’s sims do not match their sims. This is because the community will never have all of the proprietary data necessary to make perfect calculations. They can only make an educated guess at formulas and coefficients in the code based on in-game testing and data-mining, followed by flawed action lists that try to construct almost impossibly optimum conditions using best-in-slot everything, specific situational trinket synergies and inhumanly precise timing.

“Hmm, looks like the Demonology bar is longer than the Affliction bar by 2k DPS, guess I’ll go demo this tier. Hrm Mastery>Haste>Crit, guess I’ll reforge/gem for Mastery.” If this is the only criteria by which you decide on a spec, build or stat allocation for a raid, you’re making poor decisions.

Every fight is different in its mechanics and will inevitably play toward the strengths of specific specs, talents and synergies. Exploiting these strengths will always outstrip any amount of variance shown in sims or reforge plots. For instance, Destruction is strong on Horridon because it provides so many opportunities to abuse that spec's most powerful feature – Havoc’ed Shadowburns and Chaos Bolts. Many guides suggest favoring Crit and Haste due to the ember generation it produces in simulations, but if you’re only using Destruction in situations where you can abuse Havoc’ed Chaos Bolts and Shadowburns, you should really favor Mastery heavily.

Know what kind of situations each spec, talent, glyph, or stat shines in and base your choices on how many of those situations are present in the content you’re raiding.

Serelyn
Serelyn's picture
Clicking

I stopped reading you when you said that my play style was wrong. I prefer to use a mixture of clicking and hot-keys, it makes the game more enjoyable and I pay attention to it more. I get distracted very easily, so having both my hands focusing on two different things makes me focus and enjoy the game more.
Maybe it's more from my 6+ years of being a HC eq2 player, but I find that it works best for me. Does it mean that I'll be the best shammy dps/healer possible? Nope, but I don't want to be. I enjoy pushing myself, finding what I'm good/fail at and improving. I refuse to be a min/max-er in anything I do, and I won't listen to someone who tries to make me one.
So say what you will about my play style, tell me I'm wrong and bad like you do in your post. That's fine with me. But I'll take my average dps when it means that I never mess up on any aspect of a boss fight. Not once did I die to screw up with anything on Monday's raid, and I'm pretty sure most people can't say that.

Bluepea
Bluepea's picture
Hey Serelyn


So say what you will about my play style, tell me I'm wrong and bad like you do in your post.

This is unfair. You are an excellent player and it shows. I make a point in my post that there is such a thing as an awesome player who could be even better if they're capable of receiving constructive criticism and adapting.


I get distracted very easily, so having both my hands focusing on two different things makes me focus and enjoy the game more.

I've struggled with ADHD my whole life so I know all about how hard it is to keep your frontal lobe stimulated in a way that allows you to focus better. If you're on a part of that spectrum where introducing lots of extra visual elements keeps the dopamine flowing, I won't dispute your playstyle at all, but I can still argue the mechanics of it.


Does it mean that I'll be the best shammy dps/healer possible? Nope, but I don't want to be. I enjoy pushing myself, finding what I'm good/fail at and improving. I refuse to be a min/max-er in anything I do, and I won't listen to someone who tries to make me one.

I've never understood this argument. It seems contradictory. "I enjoy improving" vs. "I refuse to be a min/maxer." I don't know why this term min/maxer is such a dirty word. What does it mean besides making adjustments that improve your performance?

If you enjoy improving then whatever effort you put forth in that regard is some form of min/maxing. If you're somehow worried that reaching the end of that road where there's nothing left to min/max means you've sacrificed some sort of principle, than I don't have a clue what your talking about.

Serelyn
Serelyn's picture
Blue, I appreciate the

Blue, I appreciate the followup. You had some comments in your post which seemed like an attack on those who don't hotkey everything:

"I don’t believe you, and you’re wrong"
"Lazy, and I guess you don’t really care about min/maxing your output, nor do you respect the time and effort of those who are probably carrying you"
"Delusional"

I'm all for constructive criticism, but after reading those, I don't see it as very constructive.

I guess it's because I've always viewed min/maxing as theorycrafting, which is incorrect, and I really need to stop saying that it's the same. I am constantly trying to max out my character, I use the forums and Mr Robot and what not, but I don't view them as the holy grail. I view my improvement as situational improvement ie: What's the best way to improve in this scenario, or how can I help out the raid as much as I can. That doesn't necessarily mean dps, it could be saving two of my cool downs for a rough patch and healing the raid with them. To you, that might be considered min/maxing, so I think it's just me using a wrong definition.

Skarn
Skarn's picture
Tone

Knew I forgot something in my large reply to the even-larger topic!

Bluepea, you were fairly harsh at the start of your post. While it may even be accurate, a lot of people tend to stop listening after being insulted, as Serelyn demonstrated. :) It doesn't seem like that was your intent at all, but I see why it felt that way to Serelyn.

You two look to be working it out, which makes me very happy! :D So, just watch your tone, it's really easy to give the wrong impression in text. And Serelyn? Check out the rest of Bluepea's post, there's good stuff in there.

For Science!

Bluepea
Bluepea's picture
I said, good day, sir.

Hehe, sorry. Trust me, it's actually tame compared to the kind of criticism I'm used to. To me insults would be ad hominems like "You suck at life" or "Your face is hideous." My arguments were mainly directed at caricatures of arguments I generally see on WoW forums about common practices, not any of you or the character of the people who have made a habit of those practices. It was meant to be a cartoon version of the kind of things you tend to see on those forums.

I don't really believe most players that ignore these strategies are lazy or intentionally disrespectful. After all, it's just a game, and it would be absurd to make any sort of judgment about someone from how they play a video game. It's not a crime to simply not care. WoW is going to be at a different place on everyone's list of priorities in life.

After 15 years in the game industry one learns to make a distinction between criticism of someone's character and criticism of their ideas and that ideas are only worth defending if they have good reasons behind them. If I took it personally every time someone told me my workflow or modeling technique was wrong or inferior while showing me a better way, I'd be a defensive, depressed wretch. I've learned that getting attached to ideas or techniques to the point of associating them with my identity just leads to obstinacy and bad habits instead of improvement.

I am not my playstyle. It's just a bunch of techniques I embrace because evidence has shown me their merits. I'm willing to drop them at a moment's notice if anyone gives me good reasons why they're inferior. I actually relish being told I'm wrong because it means I'm either about to learn something new or get to re-evaluate the reasons I think I'm right and make my case.

Skarn
Skarn's picture
This is a reply!

Woah, that's a lot! Thanks for taking the time to write this all up, Bluepea. I was already aware of most of it, but I hadn't seen the DPCT before. I know the concept, but hadn't seen it applied quite like that. It's interesting. The really surprising bit of your post is how you actually play, without even using the mouse a lot of the time! That's pretty crazy, but it clearly works for you!

I've shifted my own playstyle a lot over the years, slowly working in more hotkeys. I've got a few macros, but most of the ones I've used over the years have been fight specific. I had one for quick targeting of gates on the Heroic Jaraxxus encounter in TotC. I also used a Tranq macro for the Horrors in phase one of the Lich King. Of course, I've had Misdirect macros for a long time and a very recent addition to my screen is one that casts Murder of Crows at my focus target, which is often the main boss. (That one is great for Horridon!) I really need to add one like that for Black Arrow....

I do highly recommend hotkeys and macros. They really will help just about anyone improve their gameplay. I do think there could be a threshold though. Just as everyone has a different skill level for basketball, baseball or any other sport, there's likely a level where hotkeys and macros could get overwhelming. Each person is going to have to find what works best for them, but it's worth trying different stuff. I have my rotational buttons hotkeyed and other important on demand abilities like Silencing Shot and Disengage. Some of my lesser used stuff like Widow Venom, Snake Trap or Master's Call I don't have bound. It probably would be a benefit to give those a key, but I don't know that they'd ever be second nature since they are used so infrequently. (Ok I probably don't use Master's Call as often as I should.)

So, yeah, I still click some stuff. :/ As far as what is really best? I think you're right, Bluepea. Hotkeying and macroing is superior. I still don't know that I'll ever macro everything. I guess I'm not sure it's really necessary to have my 5-minute CD Stampede on a hotkey. I only get to click it once, maybe twice a fight. The gain seems very minimal. Then again, you're the guy who crushes me on the meters. ;)

I do some of the other stuff you do like nameplates and the wider view distance. I think I keep that 45 degree angle too! Frankly, I don't feel like I have a lot of cooldowns to stack. I've got Crows (2 minutes), Rapid Fire (3 minutes) and Stampede (5 minutes). There's definitely a big boost when I can get a pot and Heroism together with Stampede, but Rapid Fire is mostly wasted with Heroism. I don't know if haste effects have any benefit to Crows, though agility pots sure do. I often feel like I don't have super sweet DPS tricks like Curse of Doom on four bosses or 500% area AoE on Primordius. :) Then again, world leading hunters do more damage than me so I'm obviously missing something!

Anyway, you've given me some stuff to think about. Thanks for taking the time.

For Serelyn and everyone else, I say read the post and see what you can incorporate from it. I honestly don't know that macroing everything and not using your mouse will work as well for everyone. I DO know that some hotkeys will absolutely help. I also think there's something to be said for fun. I've seen our raiders perform far better when we are in good spirits and having fun than if we are grumpy. A less optimal hotkey/mouse set up that is fun and intuitive to use can easily be better DPS than a "perfect" hotkey setup that is grueling and clunky. (Mix both together!) Just like playing a spec that you know and are good at is better DPS than playing the spec you are bad at, even though the Sim DPS is better.

Serelyn said:
Not once did I die to screw up with anything on Monday's raid, and I'm pretty sure most people can't say that.

...........yeah I can't say that. WHY DO YOU HATE ME!

Er, anyway! I hope everyone will always try to improve themselves, but also have fun in the process.

For Science!

Bluepea
Bluepea's picture
Why does every post need a subject field?

Yeah, like I said, no need to hotkey everything, but if it will be used in combat I think it's mandatory. I don't have Dark Intent or demon summons hotkeyed but I do have Doomguard/Terrorguard hotkeyed even though it's a 10 minute cooldown for a couple reasons.

1) It's often part of my opener, when everything else is proccing increasing its spell power. If we're in learning mode and wiping often, I'll be using it more often than every 10 minutes since it resets on wipe.

2) If I had to click it, that means moving my cursor to a place I don't want it, then having it out of place when I need to do something else like place a Rain of Fire or mouseover Shadowburn. It's lost time and lost attention that isn't necessary.

This was obviously a very DPS-centric list of suggestions, too. Healers have a different ballgame on their hands - using their mouse constantly to heal up a grid using exclusively mouseover macros for every spell (I hope).

I know changing a playstyle that has grown comfortable is irritating, but it's really not as much of a chore as most people assume it would be. I don't stake my ego or identity on the way I play and am always willing to adapt if new evidence is brought to light. I have no special pride or affinity for hotkeys versus clicking. I just genuinely want to know what the most efficient technique is so I can extract ultimate power from my gnome because that's what I find rewarding.

Skarn
Skarn's picture
To mess with you.

Every post needs a subject, uh, just because. Something in the code, I don't know if Muta can change it. You don't HAVE to fill it in though. If you leave it blank, the forum will just copy the first few words of your post.

Most fights I don't have much to do in the first 10-15 seconds except mash out my opening CDs (Stampede, Crows, Rapid Fire, Readiness, repeat). There's nothing to do with the mouse. That does change a lot per fight. Horridon obviously has a lot of target switching going on while Jin'rokh has none. Durumu's is minimal. So a lot of times, at the start of a fight, there really isn't much loss to clicking a few CDs.

That said, you've set my head spinning! I've been thinking since last night about what I can change. I've changed bindings many times in the past. I only just updated my Misdirection macros a few weeks ago. (They used to be very clunky, but are much better now.) For example, why do I still have "reply" bound to R? Why not put that over on P and use R for something useful like Crows? Same with F, Z, X, C and V. Sure, I'm used to X being the sit key, but I can learn to move that. I don't need to sit during a fight anyway! They are some really old keybinds and it's going to be weird to change it, but it should improve my play.

I do have a tendency to pay attention to a lot of extra stuff during a fight. Hazard of being a raid leader. Actually, I get somewhat zoned out when all I have to focus on is my rotation. Like at the end of Horridon or during just about anything in LFR. Not enough happening for me! XD

Thanks again for writing this up!

For Science!

Aanvil
Thanks for all the tips

Thanks for all the tips Blupea. I've dabbled in dps but definitely never gotten to a point where I was maximizing the coordination of multiple cooldowns with multiple dots. On my paladin healer I have about thirty hotkeys going, and I've found that it's easier for my fingers to remember where the buttons are, even the ones on 10 minute cooldowns like lay on hands, or the ones I rarely use like hand of salvation. If I need it in the fight, it means I need it right away, and anything I leave on a clickable button I end up forgetting where it is. I actually ran out of easily accessable buttons so I have several slots that I swap out for fight specific abilities or talents. As a healer, I am already doing double duty with my mouse targeting and moving, so I've found hotkeying everything to be pretty important.

Paladins seem to have a lot of minor abilities that can really have a major impact on specific fights. I've found it helpful to make macros that will do things like interrupt my focus target or stun the target of my target. Wandering into arenas actually really brought some of this stuff to the forefront for me. I'm still no good at arenas, but I think it helped me learn how to use some of my less obvious abilities, especially the defensive / interactive abilities that I find a lot of fun to be able to contribute when I'm healing.

Bluepea
Bluepea's picture
Not enough room

I actually ran out of easily accessable buttons so I have several slots that I swap out for fight specific abilities or talents.

Same.

One more thing I wanted to note about DPCT - For the really high DPCT abilities like Shadowburn, I even have a /stopcasting command built into the macro because it's that worth it and the window to use it is often very small. Normally the rule is if you start to cast a spell that isn't optimal, it's better to let it complete than interrupt and cast the one you wanted to cast. But Shadowburn's DPCT is so high it's even worth it to interrupt an Incinerate cast that is almost complete to squeeze it in.

Aanvil
stopcasting

I placed /stopcasting on several of my macros, most importantly, Lay on Hands and Hand of Protection. But for most spells I don't want /stopcasting because I'll often be hitting the button before my previous spell finishes casting so that I can q up the next spell.

AutoGun
AutoGun's picture
Nice Info

As a Warlock there are a sheeet ton of spells/tricks/CDs/etc that you have to use/get proc'd etc. that this is great information. I definately will use some of these for mine while playing!

As for myself I do not call myself an extreme min/max person but I did and still do a lot of research on Elitist jerks/other websites on information on rotations/glphys/proc's and so on (Glpyhs not so much now as they are very situational depending on what fight you are doing). I personally am like you Bluepea in that I love trying to top that DPS chart and this stemmed from years ago on my lock being an aggro whore and thus the name Aggrogun first was used hehe. Many years later and I still think I take pride in keeping up to date on new changes for my class/spec to know what is going to be the best (thus the 2h DPS style which is more DPS currently then the 2 1h spec that I truly love hehe).

I will be honest in that I don't have any macroes and nor do I know how to use them or even use them very effectively because there aren't many things we need to macro in that I can't or don't have hotkeyed. I use the keyboard and mouse at times and am definately guilty of using the arrow keys at times to move when I could have used the mouse but definately growing and using more things as I can. A lot of the things I do I am used to doing thus it IS harder to incorporate things that may help out but the more we play the more we learn and can adapt to these as we go.

I do save my 1 CD that I can use every minute (Pillar of Frost which increases str by 20%) and use it whenever I can when it is off cooldown and I use DoTimer for this specific reason. I also know to use that prior to using my 3 Minute Ghoul or my 10 minute Army of the Dead as they increase their stats based on mine at that time!

The biggest thing I got out of this post wasn't really posted...and that is that even though this group of raiders that we have (which honestly feels like a family more then a hardcore raiding group) have limited time to RAID we all came from or were in the old Game Theory and honestly we pushed everyone to do their top performance and that isn't ALWAYS measured in DPS.

Do we currently have the DPS to beat every boss in this game? Yes.
Do we ever die to enrage timers? Rarely unless new bosses because learning mechanics compared to DPS.

So DPS isn't the issue but at the same time we have always pushed each other to DO the best DPS/HPS etc while playing the game we love because in the long run we DO need the top DPS to beat some encounters and make them go quicker/smoother because they die faster! Are we the top DPS nopers but we do have a lot of damn good players who ALL pride ourselves on pushing those meters and trying to out rank each other. THAT is what makes the game fun for me as I know it does a lot of others. (Who doesn't like being a head of Skarn finally this patch in DPS????) hehe

Finally if you are having fun and we have progressed this far with what we have then rock on and keep going and trying to learn as best we can while progressing. If we ever hit a wall honestly that DPS needed to be higher and people weren't doing it THEN and ONLY THEN would we honestly have to look at parses for DPS to see what we can improve on. But also we have some tricks here and if we can even use ONE then we have improved ourselves so thanks Bluepea for this post!

Darkguns - Level 90 DK
Autogun - Retired Lock
Wilygun - Druid Extraordinaire
Shamgun - Shaman fun!

Bluepea
Bluepea's picture
Research and stuff

Yeah, I also visit Elitist Jerks, Icy Veins, Simulationcraft, the WoW Forums, MMO-Champion, profiles/blogs/parses of world class warlocks and other places to gather information. I'll even use Mr. Robot and MaxDPS occasionally just to see what they say. It all amounts to a large body of background data. Blizzard does a pretty good job keeping things balanced enough that there aren't any really detrimental choices, but sometimes you can discern a signal from the preponderance of all that data that kinda points toward one choice being stronger in more situations.

Aanvil
Admission

I have an admission. I don't use mouseover macros. I've known for a long time that I should, but I have resisted. This post sort of jarred that lingering doubt in my head and made me look into it again. It might mean I'll be messing up a bit for a few days, but I'm going to bite the bullet and make the change. No more excuses.

Bluepea
Bluepea's picture
Mouseover

I had a priest I leveled to 65 in 5-mans without mouseover macros before I decided to set them up. Of all the interface adaptations I've made this one actually turned out to be the easiest.

It's so nice because you can keep the boss targeted the whole time and fire off things like Mindbender or Holy Fire while still healing everyone.

Aanvil
Mouseover

Yeah, it took about 15 minutes to type in the macros, and had to correct a couple of them during LFR, but that wasn't very hard. I'm leaving the tank as my target for now since I don't have very much relevant that would target the boss, but know some healers use a mouseover + targettarget macro that works well.

Skarn
Skarn's picture
Other stuff

A couple "changeable" buttons sounds like a good idea. I could toss Widow Venom in there for a fight with healing like Durumu. Or toss Tranq in if there is an Enrage. Or Master's Call for fights with rooting elements. Hmmmmmm.

I'm not sure what I'd do with mouseover macros. There's probably a good idea, but I haven't come up with it yet. I know some hunters use Misdirect macros, but mine cast straight on Kul/Swipe, it's simpler. If I was constantly MDing to different people in LFR that would be a different story. I'll have to think about what I could do with mouseovers. Oh! Master's Call is a good one, but with really limited usage. There's not very many times that I need to make someone immune to roots. That'd be a big one in PvP though. (I'm open to ideas.)

I don't think I have anything as big as Shadowburn. As you said, interrupting the Cobra Shot wouldn't be worth the minor gain of getting off and Explosive RIGHT NOW. I do have /stopcasting built into my Silencing Shot though. I recently discovered on the hunter forums why it wasn't working very well. Oddly, it seems to need two /stopcastings to work. The first one turns off auto-shot, the second turns off Cobra Shot. It's incredibly annoying that the class is built that way. Oh well, at least I know now! It works FAR better now than it used to. Other places I use /stopcasting are Deterrence and Disengage.

For Science!

Swipenrake
Great Post Blue

Blue,
Great post! I learned a few things I didn't realize.
I don't mind the way you said anything. It is a post and our world has gotten way to PC. You offered great insight into how you top the charts on a regular basis.
Everyone should take what they can from your post and try to implement what they feel they need to. Our DPS, healing and tanking skills can always be better.

Ardwen
Hurt feelings

Blue,
Great post! I learned a few things I didn't realize.
I don't mind the way you said anything. It is a post and our world has gotten way to PC. You offered great insight into how you top the charts on a regular basis.

Yes swipe but we all know you aren't really human and therefore have no feelings ;)

Swipenrake
Terminator

Ard,

Skynet is alive and working !!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ardwen
I KNEW IT!!!!!!

<3

mutagen
mutagen's picture
Some great tips, Blue, thanks

Some great tips, Blue, thanks for taking the time to write this up. Much of your interface and playstyle philosophy matches mine, though I tend towards information overload and too many addons.

I'm going to have to take another look at Forte, while I have a similar setup with Raven for DoT timers and Gnosis for castbars I might be able to improve on it. I'd suggest a look at Tidy Plates for alternate DoT timers on nameplates themselves but Forte might be a better solution.

One thing I'd add for DPS is internal cooldown monitoring for trinkets and procs. I use Tell Me When, though I think you can achieve similar results with Weak Auras. If you know that your trinkets are coming off cooldown you can delay personal cooldowns and on-use items to line them up with your trinkets and procs for greater effect. Of course, delay too long and you've wasted the effect and maybe gotten out of sync but thats the gamble you take.

Figure out how to turn stuff on and off in your bossmod and configure it to match your role in each encounter. DBM often has tons of cooldowns and if most of them don't affect you, turn them off. DPS likely doesn't need to know the timer on the big tank hits and that bar counting down distracts you from the avoid the fire countdown.

For healing, mouseover macros or click casting are essential. A click to select a target and then a keypress to cast a heal is one action too many.

I'd also suggest healers have a target and raid frame setup that lets them know what is going on in the fight. Target of Target frame so they can follow tank swaps, a Focus target relevant to the fight and raid frames that show who has aggro. Raid frames should show all relevant debuffs which might require some customization. Raid frames should also show you enough to coordinate with other healers or cooldowns, back when we had an abundance of priests I added PWS indicators and more recently I've added Spirit Shell and Divine Aegis to better track what I'm doing. I should probably consider adding Aanvil's bubbles and assorted healer and tank cooldowns to my raid frames instead of relying on other indicators.

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